Wednesday, June 30, 2010

Македонија утре - Пјер Беарн

Македонија утре

Пјер Беарн

Македонија те сакам зашто знаеше да ја зачуваш радоста што како змија се извива меѓу нашите трпези.

Зашто знаеше и покрај се' уште да танцуваш и да ја пееш среќата што си жива во куќите што насекаде и сама ги градиш ти.

Народе раскинат, осакатен. Народе раселен и разнесен. Ве поздравувам Македонци.

Главата ви е во Скопје, со едната нога сте во Грција, со другата во Бугарија. Но вашето срце е насекаде. Кадешто дрвјата зеленеат што сами ги посадивте, во куќите што живеат без вас, а сами ги изградивте.

Но јас верувам дека ветерот на правдата ќе биде положен еден убав ден врз вашите граници од трите фрагменти на вашиот единствен живот и дека вие во него ќе живеете во народот најпосле, на крајот на краиштата роден од Европа.

За настапот со песната на Струшките вечери на поезијата авторот Пјер Беарн вели:

"Во 1991 година бев повторно поканет на Струшките вечери на поезијата. Конечно можев да ја прочитам мојата песна, кадешто во 1978 ја предвидов независноста на Македонија, земјата што ја обожавам! Ја читав мојата песна, откако една девојка ја кажа на македонски јазик. Сакав да знаат дека сакам да им кажам нешто важно! Пред стотици слушатели песната доживеа триумф. Жените плачеа, мажите извикуваа од радост. Претседателот на Републиката ме прегрна. Среде тој изблик на воздишки и ракоплескање, никогаш не бев доживеал нешто слично! Бев како маѓосан!"

Tuesday, June 29, 2010

Novi Hrvatski Radnik - 1904

"Хрвати!

Нашата слобода ни е мила, за неа речиси илјада години се бориме и крвариме со различни душмани, та така и македонскиот народ не сака потчинување, туку сака да биде свој на своето, слободен и независен: Македонија на Македонците!

Оној кој ќе отиде во служба на големите сили за подреденост и окупација на Македонија, тој се стреми за затварање на македонските права и слободи, по планините и селата да го убива невиното население што се бори за својата земја.

Ние Хрватите да го чуваме својот дом, за него да се грижиме, и да не се залетуваме за капларската чест, бидејќи и дома ќе имаме леб ако работиме. Да се угледаме на Македонците, та да се грижиме што ќе стане со нашата крвава и тажна земја. Начечно: не во Македонија! "

"Мацедонски жандари", Novi Hrvatski Radnik 2, 25. I. 1904, стр. 4, објавено и во Novi List

Откриено од Misirkov

Monday, June 28, 2010

Greece Covered Up Macedonians

Greece Covered Up Macedonian Minority

Greece Covered Up Macedonian Minority

GREECE ASKED US TO HELP COVER UP MACEDONIAN MINORITY

By Dusan Sinadinoski

In a recently declassified confidential report from June of 1974, released by United States Department of State on June 30, 2005 (USUN N 02160 142224Z), Emmanuel Megalokonomonos, permanent member of Greek United Nation Mission, has called Mr. Schaufele, the United States ambassador to United Nations, on June 14th to inform him of Greek concern that the Yugoslavs may intend to use the impending United Nation seminar on human rights to embarrass Greeks of their treatment of the Macedonian minority in Greece. This seminar was held in Ohrid from June 25 to July 8, 1974 under the sponsorship of the United Nation and it was intended to promote and protect the rights of national, ethnic and other minorities. Yugoslavia didn’t invite Greece to attend this seminar.

According to this document, the Greeks objected this seminar be held in Ohrid because 1) “Yugoslavs have chosen Ohrid in Yugoslav part of Macedonia near to Greek border for site for seminar despite Greek view that it (Ohrid) lacks adequate facilities, 2) Articles that have appeared in Yugoslav Macedonia press, 3) Statement of mayor of Skopje, 4) Greece has not been invited to attend.” In addition, Mr. Megalokonomonos had really hoped that “US was not attending” but he was informed that the US has already committed to participate.

Once Megalokonopolos realized that US wouldn’t cancel their participation in the Ohrid seminar on human rights, he than proceeded to secure a commitment from US ambassador that US would protect Greece’s interests. The report also states that “he (Megalokonomonos) than told Ambassador Schaufele that he knew Greece could count on US if issue arose. Ambassador Schaufele replied only that US would do what it could and asked for documentation which Megalokomonos promised to provide.” Moreover, Mr. Schaufele had to point out to the Greek UN representative that the Yugoslavs have not misused their role as a host to similar seminars in the past.

What is important to Macedonian cause is that subject report assessed the Greece’s concern as unfounded. The report states that “Greek government could be overreacting, but if Greek fears materialized, US participants could be placed in position of either taking sides or of appearing by their silence to acquiesce in Yugoslav charges.” Finally, the report concludes that attempt be made to “ascertain Yugoslav intentions and provide guidance for US participants accordingly.” Apparently, the ambassador Schaufele was very worried because Yugoslavia could have caused difficulties and embarrassment to United States if US supported Greece which would have undermined US role in the world on issue of human rights.

This report raises a question that begs to be asked is why was Greece so concerned over Macedonian minority in Greece if there was no Macedonian minority in Greece. All Mr. Megalokonomos had to do, since Ohrid was so near the border, is to invite US ambassador Schaufele and the participants of the Ohrid seminars to visit Voden, Kostur, Lerin, Buff and other surrounding cities and witness for themselves the status of Macedonian minority in Greece. Could the Greeks have been so shortsighted and not realized that telling the truth is always simpler than covering it up?

Sunday, June 27, 2010

Anarchism and national liberation

Freedom-centred ideas entered Macedonia through young people who had been students in Switzerland and Bulgaria at the end of the 19th century. Between 1897 and 1898 two anarchist papers were published from Geneva - Glas (The Voice) and Otmachtenie of the so-called Secret Macedonian Revolutionary Committee fighting for Macedonia’s liberation from the Turks and for the establishment of a socialist Balkan Federation. The ideas of Russian populism and anarchism were espoused by the first Macedonian socialist Vasil Glavinov (1869-1929). In Sofia, Glavinov met Gotche Deltchev (1872-1903), a leading light of the struggle to liberate Macedonia and founder of the Adrianopolis-based Macedonian Secret Revolutionary Organisation (set up in Salonika in October 1893), the man behind the revolutionary uprising on St Elias’s day in 1903. Deltchev also had a hand in establishing the “Republic of Krusevo”, the Balkans’ first socialist republic (it survived for nearly three months).
Deltchev was in close contact and personal friends with the leading Bulgarian anarchists Mihail Guerdzhikov and Varban Kilifarski. Lots of other anarchist fighters for an independent Macedonia gathered around Deltchev, among them Petar Mandzhukov (1879-1966) who published The ABC of Anarchist Doctrine in Skopje in 1898, Dame Gruev (1871-1906), Jane Sandanski (1872-1915), Nikola Karev (1877-1905), Dimo Hadzidimov (1875-1915) and others. The Macedonian anarchists also had a secret “brodara” terrorist group, the Guemidzija, in Salonika (members included Jordan Pop-Jardanov, Marko Bosnakov, Dimiter Mecev, Konstantin Kirkov, Pavel Satev, Milan Arsov and Vladimir Pingov). By organising a wave of bomb attacks on public buildings they sought to focus the eyes of the word upon the Macedonian liberation struggle (1903). Some of them were killed, others captured, sentenced to death or banished to Turkey.

An international Balkan revolutionary anarchist association called the “Red Brotherhood” was active from 1910 to 1912 in Salonika, Strumitsa, Kumanovo and Kratovo and fought the Turks in an effort to liberate Macedonia.

Trivo Indic

The anarchist tradition on Yugoslav soil; Anarchism and national liberation

Umanità Nova, 27 May 1990. Translated by: Paul Sharkey.

Link http://www.katesharpleylibrary.net/1c5bbd

Saturday, June 26, 2010

Red Brotherhood

A red brotherhood appears in Europe - The New York Times Article, 9 January 1912

"...The Red Brotherhood is an international secret society resembling the Black Hand in many ways and hardly less deadly. On papper bearin a representation of the rising sun, with skull and crossed swords beneath... The centres of their operations in the Balkans at present appear to be in the district of Strumitza, Kumanova and Krateva..."

Friday, June 25, 2010

Macedonian Existence in Greece

UN Established Macedonian Existence in Greece

UN Established Macedonian Existence in Greece

1947 UN Commission Established the Existence

of the Macedonian Minority in Greece

July, 2008

Dusan Sinadinoski


The modern Greek folly has always been its persistent but reckless denial of the existence of a Macedonian nationality. The hysteric intolerance against ethnic Macedonians has distorted the Greek collective consciousness so much that Greeks are no longer capable of differentiating between their wish that Macedonians were truly nonexistent and the actual Macedonian reality, which so defiantly confronts them.

As their Macedonian phobia continues to feed their schizophrenic psyches, rather than dealing with the Macedonian reality like rational people, they instead cry out for sympathy and comfort while hoping to be freed from their Macedonian nightmare, just like a small child who has awakened from a bad dream and cries out to his parents for comfort.

Such was the case in 1947 when the Greek government protested to the United Nations' Security Council regarding border violations by its northern neighbors. Greece demanded that Yugoslavia cease and desist overt military and logistical aid to the guerrillas fighting in the Greek Civil War, many of whom were ethnic Macedonians.

On December 19 1946, a Commission of Investigating was established by the United Nations pursuant to the resolution of the Security Council to examine alleged Greek frontier incidents. To the surprise and dismay of the Greek government, the Commission of Inquiry broadened its scope of investigation to include the treatment of minorities, tendentious misstatements of facts in press and radio, activities of foreign military and police missions in the four countries concerned and arraignments of free port or free zone facilities in Salonika.

Outraged by the Commission's expanded mission, Greece threatened the immediate execution of political prisoners and captured "bandits" unless the Commission narrowed its scope of investigating to the original request. However, after heavy arm-twisting by the United States the Greek government halted the executions and allowed the Commission to proceed without further impediment.

The United States was concerned that if Greece carried out the execution of the Macedonians world opinion would turn against Greece, which would give Yugoslavia, supported by the Soviets, a pretext to invade and detach Aegean Macedonia from Greece. In order to save face, and perhaps their country, Greek Ambassador, Dendramis, was instructed by the United States to inform the Security Council that Greece's protest was filed merely so there could be no grounds for misunderstanding regarding the interpretation of the terms of reference" (Telegram from Secretary of State to the US Embassy in Greece, February 8, 1947).

The United States understood that if Greece continued on its reckless political course it was only a matter of weeks before it fell to the Soviet bloc. Therefore, such a communist scenario for the future of Greece had to be prevented from becoming a reality.

Once the Commission began its work, the investigation of the Greek border incidents was downgraded as a minor issue. Such incidents, as the Commission contended, were regular occurrences in the Balkans for centuries and this issue in itself did not warrant an investigation at the United Nations level.

But the United States and Britain used this issue as a pretext to counterbalance Soviet expansion to the Balkans by preserving Greek territorial integrity. Britain and the Unites States were convinced that Yugoslavia wanted to detach the Aegean and Pirin parts of Macedonia from Greece and Bulgaria respectively and create an autonomous Macedonian state within the Yugoslav Federation.

Thus in the midst of this global political drama, the Macedonian issue again took center stage. But the ensuing colossal political battle between East and West instantly relegated Greece and Macedonia to the sidelines as spectators of their own destiny. The political drama was moved from the bloody foothills in Greece to the stately halls in Geneva. There, the ideological demarcation line between East and West was drawn alongside the Greek-Macedonian border, and as a result Greece and Macedonia continued their bitter rivalry on opposite sides of each other.

Nonetheless, the Commission's investigation was not interrupted and it was able to gather first hand information on the issues in question. However, before the findings were officially published, Commission representatives regularly communicated their findings to their respective governments for further evaluation and for instructions by their foreign affairs departments.

In one instance, the US Commission representative, Mark Ethridge, on May 8, 1947, sent a secret telegram to US Secretary of State, Marshall, informing him that "Greece itself by its own short sighted attitude and by its discriminatory and gangster-like methods was providing grist for the mill of political indoctrination and training in northern countries. It is noteworthy that a very large proportion of the refugees from Greece are Slavo-Macedonians who bore the brunt of discrimination. It seems clear to me that unless the discriminatory treatment stops flight to the mountains or across the borders will not stop. Thus this is the interrelation between nature and the causes and conclusion that Greece's discrimination has caused thousands to flee."

This short but revealing passage summarizes the entire political landscape in Aegean Macedonia and accurately depicts the state of the Macedonian minority in Greece. It is also evident that the American diplomat clearly acknowledges the existence of the Macedonian minority in Greece and he leaves no room for questioning which minority he is referring to. Additionally, he doesn't hide the fact that Greece's domestic policy is the root cause of the plight of refugees and the discrimination against the Macedonian minority.

Ever conspiring and manipulating, Greece could not admit to the world it could be guilty of the most notorious crimes against the Macedonian minority. Greece wanted the free and democratic world to believe that the existence of the Macedonian minority, the plight of the Macedonian refugees and the execution of the Macedonian political prisoners were fallacious charges because Greece denied them. To further cover up their mess, Greece shifted the blame on Yugoslavia for stirring up trouble in Greece.

In their support, Greece offered to the Commission as evidence quotes from speeches of Yugoslav and Bulgarian statesmen from articles in the press, which to the Greeks meant unequivocal proof that Yugoslavia agitated a separate Macedonian state within the Yugoslav Federation and thus exploited the aspiration of Macedonians in Greece for an autonomous Macedonia. Thus it seems Greeks wanted to simultaneously claim both the non-existence of the Macedonian minority and blame Yugoslavia for fermenting dissatisfaction and disturbances among the Macedonians in Greece. This can't be true in any world, not even in a Venizelos' Greek-a-polis.

Based on its findings, the Commission's conclusions clearly and unequivocally put the blame on Greece for a policy of systematic discrimination and persecution of the Macedonian minority in that country. Even though Macedonians in Greece were not the primary goal of the Commission, some of its conclusions undeniably confirmed the existence of a Macedonian minority:

1) It was pointed out to the Commission and not disputed that after the Varkiza agreement over 20,000 Greek citizens had fled into Yugoslavia either directly or through Albania or Bulgaria and approximately 5,000 into Bulgaria, a substantial proportion in each case being of Slavo- Macedonian origin. Evidence was also presented in support of the charge that Greece has sanctioned persecution of its Slavo-Macedonian minorities. Furthermore, the Commission heard testimony that the Slavic dialect spoken by Slavo-Macedonians who were believed to comprise about 85,000 people was not taught in schools and that in certain areas, use of this dialect was prohibited." These findings by the Commission were so compelling in their condemnation of the Greek state that they left no room for doubt.

2) The Commission is of the opinion that as long as such discriminatory treatment continues, there will be unrest and discontent on the part of the Slavic minority in Greek Macedonia, which will provide fertile breeding ground for a separatist movement.

3) In connection with the present situation, the Greek Commission was presented with a body of evidence in support of the charges that responsibility for the situation lay with Greek domestic policy... This evidence was in effect that opposition political groups in Greece were persecuted by Greek gendarmerie and right-wing bandits, and that the civil rights of the Macedonian and Chamuriot minorities have been restricted

4) The Commission also received sufficient evidence to warrant a conclusion that immediately after the liberation of Greece, the small Slav speaking and Chamuriot minority in Greco- Macedonia and Epirus had been victims of retaliatory excesses, and Chamuriot minority had actually fled en masse from the country. As regards treatment of minorities, the Greek government asserted the acts in question were committed before it established control in the areas concerned, and that many members of these minority groups had collaborated with Axis occupying forces during war Considering that these conclusions were unintended consequences, the findings of the Commission reveal disturbing and undeniable evidence of an official Greek policy of persecution and discrimination against the Macedonian minority. These accusations against the Greek state in 1947 were not "dreamed" up. They were findings by the United Nations Commission of Investigating and were consistent with the facts on the ground. These findings speak loudly and plainly to the world that the Greek denial of the Macedonian minority transcends all rationality.

Indeed, this denial has become a Greek national blasphemy.

The Greek national obsession with the Macedonian issue continues to regenerate itself as a persistent and bloody hatred that is no longer capable of self-control. Greece has gone wrong on the Macedonian issue and Greek society cannot be expected to find a cure for its anti- Macedonian paranoia. It's time for the international community to call upon Greece and help this nation transcend the bounds of its delusional fascination with the Megale Idea.

The report of Commission of Investigation was signed at Geneva on May 23, 1947. The conclusions were subscribed by Australia, Belgium, Brazil, China, Columbia, Syria, United Kingdom and the United States. The delegations of Soviet Union and Poland did not approve the conclusions and the French delegation abstained. The United Nations has published the Commission's report in Official Records of the Security Council, Second Year, Special Supplement No. 2.

The information used to write this article was taken from the University of Wisconsin Digital Collection Library, United States Department of State Foreign relations of the United States, 1947. The Near East and Africa: Volume V (1947). The United States economic and military aid to Greece and Turkey: the Truman Doctrine, pp. 1 - 484

Thursday, June 24, 2010

Мустафа Кемал Ататурк - цитати

Кемал Мустафа - Ататурк, таткото на модерна Турција и неговата поврзаност со Македонија и со Македонците.

"The Father of All the Turks (who left no legitimate heirs) was born in 1881 in Salonika, then part of the Ottoman Empire, of a mild Albanian father and a forceful Macedonian mother." - http://www.time.com/

"Доаѓањето на Мустафа Кемал Ататурк во Софија во 1913 година среде Македонците создаде голема радост... Македонците се зближија и се спријателија со Мустафа Кемал, кого впрочем го сметаа и за свој сограѓанин, бидејќи тој беше роден во Солун... Од сите емигрантски организации што дејствуваа во Софија, Мустафа Кемал реши да соработува единствено со левицата на ВМРО предводена од Сандански, а која немаше никакви империјалистички претензии кон Османлиската Империја и која мислеше дека ако ги поддржува Турците, во иднина во својата борба ќе може да смета на турска помош и поддршка" - според Алтан Делиорман.

"Османската империја треба да ги промени своите граници т.е. да се повлече на етничките граници на турскиот народ и да се формира турската национална држава. Ако Османската империја самата ги промени своите граници, тоа ќе го стори во своја и во ползата на турскиот народ. Ако нив ги променат европските сили и соседните балкански држави, тоа ќе го направат на штета на Османската империја и турскиот народ. На териториите кои ќе останат надвор од границите на турската држава меѓу кои се наоѓаат Македонија и Албанија, прво да им се даде автономија, а подоцна и целосна независност." - Кемал Ататурк според Б. К. Чаглар и А. Н. Каскати.

Wednesday, June 23, 2010

Macedonians in the US Census

Macedonians in the US Census

Macedonians in the US Census

By Dusan Sinadinoski

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp besides the golden door.

From The New Colossus by the 19th Century American Poet, Emma Lazarus

The majority of the several million newly arrived immigrants had no idea that these words were inscribed on a plate at the bottom of the Statute of Liberty – the Welcoming Lady, whose height and beauty combine for an awesome visual experience. These arrivals came from different countries of the world, spoke different languages, and practiced diverse customs. Some of them were more educated and skilled than others. And some were full of dreams and high hopes of becoming rich or famous; but most simply wanted a new and better life for themselves. In that midst of the myriad of people from all races, nationalities and social classes, a handful of Macedonianpeca lbari (wage earners) had more pressing issues on their minds rather than thinking of making history – but they did.

The first Macedonians who planted their feet on American soil left behind Macedonia, a country ravaged by wars where political persecution and ethnic cleansing occurred daily. Regardless of who controlled their homeland, and no matter to which nationality, ethnicity or religion the Macedonians belonged, they were poor, illiterate and deprived of hope for a better future. Following the Balkan Wars of 1913, the Macedonia was completely erased from the map. A few decades later, they were renamed Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs or Albanians depending on which country their part of Macedonia ended up in. But in spite of this the Macedonian pecalbari brought over Macedonia in their hearts to America, where they were free to call themselves Macedonians and to speak their Macedonian language.

It would have probably never been known who the first Macedonians to settle in America were if it wasn’t for the United States Census Bureau. The first census taken in America was in 1790, when the country numbered 3.9 million people. We do not know if there were any Macedonians among those first Americans; but in 1860, only half a century later, the name Macedonia appeared for the first time on a U.S. census. The assistant marshal and census taker at the post office of Empire City (the Empire Precinct in the county of Coos, Oregon) on the twelfth of September in 1860 documented that a certain Richard Casaus was born in Macedonia. He was 54 years old at the time and was married to Harriet Casaus, who was two years older than he. They had three children: Charlotte 14, Elizabeth 4 and Victori 1. Also listed on the same document was Joseph Casaus, age 40.

Initially, given the fact that none of the listed names appear to be traditional Macedonian names; it would seem very preposterous to make a claim that Richard Casaus was Macedonian. But Richard Casaus, if that was his real name, gave that information. Knowing also that Harriet, his wife, was born in Florida further shows that Richard could have come to Florida from some place else. Prior to 1860, Florida was still mostly a Spanish speaking state and he could have got his last name there because the name “Casaus” is often found in Spanish speaking countries. Macedonians rarely used last names prior to prior to 1913.

Also listed living at the same address was Joseph Casaus (MacedonianJosif) who was 40 years old and was born in Russia. This definitely implies that Richard could have traveled to Russia where Joseph was born and they probably together came to Florida. The census does not say whether Richard and Joseph were brothers. But since Richard is only 14 years older than Joseph it makes it quite unlikely to assume that they were father to son related.

One can also make the case that Richard could have been born in some of the towns named “Macedonia” in USA. This postulate makes sense but in 1805, when Richard was born, there were no places in USA called Macedonia. In addition, the census only asked that the head of household give the US state or territory, or a country if foreign born as place of birth. The towns, cities and villages were not accepted as valid answer.

Moreover, since neither their first or last names are typical Macedonian, Slavic or Orthodox Christian sounding names, it makes no sense to maintain the validity of the census data. It is a known fact that most immigrants change their names upon arrival to USA either for economic reason or some other factors. Having the historical perspective in mind, it is only reasonable to assume that they would want to give their children English names. In any event, Richard Casaus is the first known person to list Macedonia as his birth place. Hopefully, further research could shed some more light on the life of Richard Casaus.

The next census of 1870 show no entry for any citizens born in Macedonia. But two immigrants from Turkey with typical Macedonian names stand out in the list of citizens who were born in Turkey: Pano Gospondonof and Andrea Isanoff. All we know about these two gentlemen is that Andrea Isanoff was 23 years old and lived in Ithaca, New York while Pano Gospondonof was 23 years old and lived in Royalston, Massachusetts.

The 1880 census records show that three people were born in Macedonia. They were Thomas and Anthony Protopsaltis, and Constantine Trico. The spelling of the last names for Thomas and Anthony was difficult to ascertain because the document is smudged. But what the document shows is that Thomas was a 32-year old physician and a widower who was born in Macedonia. He also said that both his father and mother were born in Macedonia. Similarly, Constantine was born in Macedonia in 1848 with both parents having been born in Macedonia, and he was also single and a minister. Constantine’s last name may have been Trajko because the letter “i” corresponds to the Macedonian pronunciation “aj” and the letter “c” when written before “o” is pronounced “k”.

The next few censuses produced several people who state Macedonia as their place of birth. What is notable and interesting for us is that we now find Macedonians who are boarding in larger groups, which indicates that those people were trulypecalbari. For instance, the 1900 census shows that ten Macedonians listed Philadelphia Ward 14, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania as their address reported that they were born in Macedonia. Also, the 1900 census shows that Simon Vasoff to have been the first known Macedonian to have lived in Alaska.

A significant increase in number of people shown to have been born in Macedonia occurred in the 1910 census. Here we find 423 people have listed Macedonia as their birth place. Again, the pattern appears more and more evident that these Macedonians werepeca lbari because the majority lived in boarding houses throughout the United States. Sometimes these men were listed as singles and lived in boarding houses in groups of ten or more people. Evidently, they must have worked in some large factories, lumber yards, ship docks, coal mines, etc. The largest masses of Macedonian immigrants are found in Gary Ward #4, Lake, Indiana; Indianapolis Ward #13, Marion, Indiana; Wayne, Owen, Indiana; Zumbrota, Goodhue, Minnesota; Havre Ward #2, Chouteau, Montana; Pembroke, Merrimack, New Hampshire; Manhattan Ward #15, New York; Springfield Ward #2, Clark, Ohio; Madison, Armstrong, Pennsylvania; Salt Lake City Ward #2, Salt Lake , Utah; and Castlewood, Russell, Virginia.

The Fourteenth Census of the United States of America taken in 1920 shows 5,411 people who have listed Macedonia as their birth place. Although many Macedonians were still found in boarding houses, the vast majority of them listed individual addresses and had their wives and children living with them. But what is of more significance to the Macedonians is that this census, in addition to place of birth, also asked for the father’s place of birth and his mother tongue, as well as mother’s place of birth and her mother tongue. Many thousands of Macedonians in addition to calling themselves Macedonians they also listed that their fathers and mothers were born in Macedonia and their language was also Macedonian. For instance, in Lackawanna Ward #1, Erie, New York, we find twelve men who responded as such. Those men were Risto Simoff, Risto Feftim, Jose Cortkoff, Joseph Androff, Stephan Naum, Nielier Strfoff, Nickolas Traickeff, Janes Hristeff, Dimitry Setreff, Nicholas Strfoff, Kosta Sonteroff and Talle Mitroff.

The last census which shows Macedonia as a birth place, a nationality, and a language was the 1930 census. These census documents show that 1, 788 people were born in Macedonia. But this number is now significantly less than that of 1920 census. There are many reasons why this happened, but those reasons were far beyond the control of ordinary Macedonians. Perhaps if Greece and Bulgaria let their population census become available to the world we could answers many more questions.

These several thousands Macedonians made history without trying. They came to America to escape tyranny and devastation and all they wanted was to make a better living for them and their families back home. Yet, decades later their names would be immortalized. Who could have imagined that one day a small country of Macedonia thousands of miles away would be forever thankful to those United States census takers who dutifully wrote what they heard?

Tuesday, June 22, 2010

Петар Богдани - Македонец

Петар Богдани се смета за најистакната фигура на старата албанска литература. Живеел од 1630 до 1689 година. Бил католички свештеник а и Архиепископ на Скопје.

Сликава што ја гледате е направена во музејот во Тирана и е оригиналната книга во проза што Петар Богдани ја објавил на италјански јазик. Интересно е тоа што под неговото име пишува на италијански MACEDONE. Во музејот во Тирана не знаат како да го објаснат ова.



















Cvnevs prophetarvm de Christo salvatore mvndi et eivs evangelica veritate, italice et epirotice contexta, et in duas partes diuisa a Petro Bogdano Macedone, Sacr. Congr. De Prop. Fide alvmno, Philosophiae & Sacrae Theologiae Doctore, olim Episcopo Scodrensi & Administratore Antibarensi, nunc vero Archiepiscopo Scvporvm ac totivs regni Serviae Administratore

Дружината на пророкот вклучително и Христа, спасителот на светот и неговата евангелска вистина, уредена на италијански и епирски и поделена на два дела од страна Петар Богдан Македонец (од Македонија?), ученик на Светата конгрегација верска пропаганда, доктор по филозофија и света теологија, бивш бискуп на Скадар и администратор на Бари, а сега надбискуп на Скопје и администратор на целото Кралевство Србија.

Преземено од Bratot

Monday, June 21, 2010

Early Macedonian Immigration

A Snapshot Of Early Macedonian Immigration to USA

A Snapshot Of Early Macedonian Immigration to USA

By Dusan Sinadinoski

Records on early Macedonian immigration to the United States of America at the turn of the 20th century are of paramount importance for establishing support of a Macedonian ethnic identity. But they also serve another extremely useful purpose: reflecting away attacks against the Macedonian ethnicity perpetrated by the Greek and Bulgarian states. Knowing the vital impact that these records will have on the many current debates and questions about the Macedonian identity, one can only wonder how it is possible that such a wealth of information remains obscure and basically untapped. A simple snapshot of it reveals startling discoveries which could shatter the opponents’ claim that the Macedonian ethnic identity is a recent creation.

Based on the United States Immigration and Naturalization records, approximately 15,000 people who entered the United States of America between 1895 an 1925 identified themselves as Macedonians -- even though the state of Macedonia did not exist at the time. The existence of a separate and a distinct Macedonian ethnic identity is still being feverishly denied by Greece and Bulgaria (two Balkan countries that are members of the European Union, but still trenched in 19th century Balkan ethnocentrism), who claim that the Macedonian state and Macedonians are not an outcome of a long and historically proven process, but rather a recent act of creation by Stalin and Tito during World War II. If this argument is true, then we are faced with a paradox: how is it possible for such a relatively large number of people to declare themselves Macedonians before, as the Greeks claim, the Macedonian existence was even created?

It is very difficult to determine the exact number of Macedonians who immigrated to America for many varying reasons. The main reason is that Macedonia did not become an independent country until 1991, after the break up of Yugoslavia. Throughout the centuries, especially in modern times, Macedonia was either a part of the Turkish empire as a whole or, after the Balkan wars, it was divided amongst Greece, Bulgaria, Albania and Serbia (Yugoslavia after 1945). Thus, many Macedonians who immigrated from these countries carried their passports and were identified as nationals from Greece, Bulgaria or Serbia (Yugoslavia). The ability to determine the exact number of Macedonian immigrants to America is further complicated by the fact that there was lack of recorded and verifiable standardized data in the above mentioned countries for the immigrants to carry with them for identification purposes. If any such records exist, it is doubtful that those records would have shown entries such as date of birth, place of birth, first and last name, current residence, ethnicity or nationality, gender, or occupation. It is reasonable to assume, therefore, that many Macedonian immigrants may have listed the name of their country of origin as their ethnic identity (whichever country happened to occupy Macedonia during that specific historical period). It is also likely that Macedonians, as well as other ethnic groups, may have not distinguished between the concepts of nationality and ethnicity since both were relatively new to the indigenous peoples of Macedonia. But many Macedonians , despite all odds in the wake of unprecedented and relentless attempts at the suppression of their ethnic identity and nationality, declared themselves as Macedonians upon arrival to America.

The data below (which was extracted from the United States Immigration and Naturalization records, as copied from the National Archives and Records Administration (MARA) microfilm), show the number of passengers that entered the various ports of the United States of America and declared themselves Macedonians:

# of Passengers; Port of Entry

13, 776; New York Passenger Lists, 1820 - 1957
338; Baltimore Passenger Lists, 1820 - 1948
256; Galveston Passenger Lists, 1896 - 1948
173; Boston Passenger Lists, 1820 - 1943
130; Atlantic Ports Passenger Lists, 1820 - 1873 and 1893 - 1959
46; Philadelphia Passenger Lists, 1800 - 1945
8; Detroit Border Crossing and Passenger Crew Lists, 1905 - 1957
6; New Orleans Passenger Lists, 1820 - 1945
2; Border Crossings from Canada to US, 1895 - 1956
2; Seattle Passenger and Crew Lists, 1882 - 1957

It is astonishing to discover that 14,737 passengers declared themselves as Macedonians during times when there was no official recognition of the Macedonian ethnic identity and no Macedonian state in existence. These numbers in themselves are not significant in comparison to the millions of immigrants of other nationalities who entered the United Sates during those times. These numbers also pale in comparison to the approximately 600,000 Greek immigrants who came to the United States. However, what is significant is that these immigrants chose freely and consciously to identify themselves as Macedonians upon their arrival to America. There is no doubt that those people must have not only felt different from the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians and the Turks, but they also had to have felt that they belonged to a unique ethnic group of their own -- which they identified as Macedonian.

These Macedonians are clearly and unambiguously speaking to those who still object to the Macedonian ethnic identity and who argue that the modern Macedonians are products of Stalin’s and Tito’s hallucinations. Hence, the argument that the modern state of the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian ethnic nationality was not historical but a political “creation” cannot explain how these people suddenly and magically “became“ Macedonians upon their arrival to the United States.

Another very important set of data contained in the US Immigration and Naturalization records regarding the early Macedonian immigration to America indicates that they listed different countries as a country of origin as shown below:

Country of Origin; Number of Passengers

Turkey; 4,979
Greece; 906
Macedonia; 4,194
Bulgaria; 267
Albania; 5
Serbia; 188

Here it is clearly shown that the largest number of Macedonian immigrants, 4,979 Macedonians to be exact, listed Turkey as their country of origin. This is because prior to the Balkan wars of 1913, all of Macedonia belonged to Turkey. But what really sticks out here is that almost an equal number of Macedonians listed Macedonia as their country of origin even though it had not become a state. Additionally, what pokes at the Greek and Bulgarian ethnically chauvinistic eyes is how such small numbers of Macedonians declare Greece and Bulgaria as their countries of origin. The reason for this, as we will see later, is that immediately after the Balkan wars, Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia did not have their propaganda campaigns for converting the Macedonian population into their own nationalities established within their newly “liberated” parts of Macedonia.

This was a period of massive migration from Macedonia to neighboring countries and to America because of depressive economic conditions and political persecutions. Soon afterwards, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia intensified their efforts of converting the Macedonians to the point where they would send many of their own teachers and priests to Macedonia so that there were more educators in Macedonia than in their counties combined. As the data will show later, Greece, the “cradle” of democracy, would go even further by making sure that there would never again be Macedonians to emigrate from Greece to the United States of America.

However, not all immigrants who listed Macedonia as their country of origin declared themselves as Macedonians. In addition to the 14,737 Macedonians, many other immigrants from Macedonia identified themselves as follows:

Nationality; Number of Passengers

Greek; 13,199
Turkish; 1,083
Bulgarian; 3,594
Serbian; 13
Albanian; 331

It is shown here that the largest number of them identified themselves as Greeks. Significant numbers also declared themselves as Bulgarian and Turks. The large number of Greeks from Macedonia can be explained mostly by the fact that there were many Greeks living in the agean part of Macedonia. Some Macedonians may have been already converted to Greeks. However, what these numbers do not tell us is whether all of those immigrants were Greeks, Turks or Bulgarians, or whether they simply chose whichever way was most expedient to arrive at the shores of America. But to appropriately clarify their true nationality, additional research of other relevant data is needed, such as birth places, first and last names, the language which they spoke, customs which they practiced, and etc. For instance, the records show that some people declared themselves Turkish even tough their names were clearly Christian and Slavic. However, it also fair to assume that there were many immigrants from Macedonia of different nationalities since Macedonia was truly a multi-ethnic country prior to its subdivision by Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia..

The picture of the Macedonian immigrants from Macedonia and the neighboring countries starts to look very different after World War I. As the Balkan countries started to emerge from the devastation of WWI and began to take hold of their destinies, they also started to inflame their nationalism by intensifying their efforts to crack down on the Macedonian ethnic identity. Thus, as soon as Macedonia disappeared from the Balkan map after WWI, so did the Macedonians. As we can see from the next table, the number of Macedonians coming from Greece dropped sharply until they completely disappeared from 1930s and on.

The table below of Macedonian immigrants to the United States of America coming from Greece clearly demonstrates to us the fate of the Macedonians in Greece:

Immigration Period; Number of Macedonians from Greece

1890 - 1910; 205
1911 - 1930; 694
1931 - 1950; 16
1951 - 1970; 0
1971 - 1990; 0
1991 - Present; 0

Since all of Macedonia was under the Ottoman Empire prior to 1910, it is highly likely that the 205 Macedonians immigrants during this period must have come from Greece proper, otherwise they would have stated either Turkey or Macedonia as their country of origin. In addition, it can also be seen that the larger number of Macedonian immigrants from Greece came during the period between 1911 - 1930. However, the majority of the 694 immigrants came prior to 1925. To be precise, 557 Macedonians came between 1911 and 1925. But here is what is really distressing about this table: what happened to the Macedonians in Greece after 1930, when we know that at least half of the Macedonian territory ended up with Greece? Is it possible that the part of Macedonia which ended up in Greece had no Macedonians living there? Or is it quite possible that no Macedonian ever again left Greece for the United States of America? No matter what question is asked, it can be safely assumed that when it comes to ethnicity and the practice of chauvinistic politics in Greece, it all becomes Greek magic!

Of course, much of the data contained in the Immigration and Naturalization archive is raw data and it needs to be supported and evaluated in order for us to draw any meaningful conclusion about the early Macedonian immigration to the United States. But even this raw data highlights the unsustainable denials of the Macedonian ethnic identity. Unless one somehow believes that this data was either manipulated, or the passengers were coerced to declare themselves as Macedonian (both of which would make no sense), the presence of a unique Macedonian ethnic identity coming to United States from Macedonia is undeniable. How far back the Macedonians date is the task of historians, archeologists and other scientific researchers. But it is obvious that the Macedonian people freely spoke at the doorstep of their new country that welcomed them
with the open arms.

People who are familiar with the history of the Balkan countries understand that there was not much standardized population record-keeping; such as births, deaths, names of inhabitants, and etc. Whatever records did exist were usually destroyed during the many wars they fought against each other and together against foreign invaders. In addition, the remaining data on the Macedonians were manipulated by Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia through changing their last names, names of villages and cities, practice of customs, and other defining characteristic of the Macedonia ethnicity. Therefore, in light of these reasons, the US immigration records speak much louder when it comes to the true reality of the Macedonian nationality. For instance, when we examine the first and last names of the Macedonian immigrants, it is quite noticeable that they are typically Macedonian of Christian and Slavic background, such as : Petre Boris, Anta Bozin, Mire Arsa, Stanko Avram, Stojan Coteff, Milan Dime, Naum Foteff, Vidoja Sinadin, Ilija Mladen, etc. But after World War I, the Macedonian last names somehow changed over night and acquired typical Greek, Serbian, and Bulgarian endings of -os, -ich and -off. It is just another
Balkan twist of the Macedonian ethnic identity.

In conclusion, this snapshot of the early Macedonian immigration is not meant to be proof for the existence of a separate and distinct Macedonian ethnic identity. The centuries-old continuous existence of the Macedonian people on the same territory is a fact requiring no proof. But this data does provide us with information supporting the notion that the Greek claim that the Macedonian nation was invented by Stalin and Tito is a ridiculous one. Therefore, the question which begs to be answered is how do we re-name people who have already named themselves? The Macedonians who sought the refuge under the torch of the welcoming lady spoke clearly and loudly that they are Macedonians. This is just another testament against the Greek’s attempt at a derogatory re-naming of the Macedonian people.

Sunday, June 20, 2010

Кръстьо Манчев - Интервю

Проф. Кръстьо Манчев - Интервю

Професор Кръстьо Манчев е роден на 27 септември 1926 година в село Верзар, Царибродско, Западни покрайнини. Завършва история в СУ. Специализирал е в ГДР и СССР. Научен сътрудник в Института по балканистика при БАН. Избягал през 1949 година в България, години наред е работил в Димитровград като бригадир, бил убеден комунист и антититовист. След това учителства в Симеоновград. Там проф. Кръстьо Манчев представи най-новата си книга “Кървавият край на Югославия” миналата седмица. На Балканите величието винаги се е измервало с територии - колкото повече имаш, толкова си по-велик, казва той. Напротив - колкото по-образован, работещ, знаещ и можещ е един народ, колкото по-уредена ти е държавата, тогава си наистина велик.

- Одобрявате ли назначения министър на българите в чужбина?

- Една политика, която и да е, трябва да приеме съществуващите реалности, не може да е успешна в разрез със съществуващите реалности. Македония е съществуваща реалност. И там, в тая Македония, може да има някой, който иска да е българин. Но мнозинството са македонци, така казват, или поне това е, което аз знам. Тази е реалността и тя трябва да се приеме. Аз лично, ако ме питате, не одобрявам да има министър за българите извън България. Абе, я си представете, че Турция си назначи министър за турците в България. Как ще изглежда това - някой техен министър да се занимава с тях? Така изглежда в Македония Божидар сега.

- Той определено ги дразни. Беше обявил награда, ако се намерят сериозни доказателства за съществуването на македонска нация.

- За каква македонска нация да се намерят документи? Ами тях ги има! Аз и на него му казах: През 1903 г. има един Кръстьо Мисирков, който е издал книга “За македонските работи”. Ама тя е издадена в София и там се твърди, че българи, сърби такива-онакива няма, ние сме от едно дъно. Има един голям сръбски учен, казва се Стоян Новакович, още в края на XIX век е казал това. Те не са нито сърби, нито българи. Тази теза за македонизма е малко в услуга на Сърбия тогава. Сега тя не е актуална, защото македонизмът е антисръбски. Това ние трябва да схванем доста добре. Той не е просръбски, нито е пробългарски, той си е македонски национализъм. Това е македонизма. И Стоян Новакович е казал още тогава - те не са нито българи, нито сърби, те са си отделно нещо. Ние обаче ще поддържаме това твърдение, защото това ще ги отдели от България и ще помогне Македония да стане част от Сърбия. Аз не виждам никаква друга перспектива освен ние да признаем това и да работим в тая посока, а не обратно.

Какъв е този случай сега със Спаска Митрева? Мъж и жена се скарали, развели се, имат дете. Има някакъв съд, който се занимава с това кой прав, кой крив. На българската държава ли е работа да се занимава с това? Да решава техните съдби. И тя е права, защото се е обявила за българка. А защо тя се е обявила за българка? Ами защото знае, че българската държава ще застане зад нея. Така го виждам аз. И се ангажираха на високо ниво… Даже и министър-председателят имаше изявления. И освен това със сигурност знам, че някои хора там искат български паспорти от егоистични съображения, за да дойдат тук в България, защото сме член на ЕС, а не защото чак толкова са българи.

- Тяхната политика не е ли малко така инфантилна. Те са най малката нация на Балканския полуостров, а като че ли имат най-много претенции?

- Не мога да кажа, че имат най-много претенции. Те са в тежка ситуация. Гърция не ги иска, ние имаме претенции, макар че ги прикриваме, Албания е оттатък - една трета от македонците са албанци. Тя може да няма претенции, но населението е албанско и имаше искане това население да бъде в съюз с албанците и да правят обща държава. Освен това е сиромашка страна. Това е, което аз от разстояние мога да кажа и виждам.

- Или в Австралия техен министър имал националистически изказвания, а президентът Първанов каза, че подкрепата ни за Македония няма да бъде безусловна.

- Ами, ако така е казал, това не е добре. Какво искаме да правим тогава? Да я капсулираме ли? Тогава тя винаги ще бъде против нас. Аз това не го приемам. Как така може да говори? Не го приемам! Вижте какво, държавната политика се прави също от хората. Те могат да правят и глупости. Но ние никога не сме били гражданско общество, което да заеме позиция. Да каже стоп, тука не сте прави и да ги свали, да смени политиката. Ние винаги сме вървели подир управниците си.

- Преди известно време се прокрадна една идея учени от всички държави да напишат обща история на балканските народи?

- Това е идея. Много добра идея. Обаче национализмът пречи да стане това.

- Има ли такъв прецедент в света?

- Не съм чул за такъв. Но гледайте, нашата история е написана от национални позиции, ама гръцката и тя е от национални, и сръбската. Те се пресичат една в друга. Това, което е за нас е истина, за сърбите не е. И обратно. Ще кажа конкретен пример - 1916 година ние завоювахме Моравието. Влиза там българска войска, прави се българска администрация, преименуват хората, правят ги българи, училищата правят български, арестуват хора, препращат ги насам-натам, мобилизират сърбите, издава се вестник “Моравски глас”. Има историци, които пишат какви големи българи са тия моравци. А те въстават, има голямо въстание срещу нас и ние трябва да го напишем в учебниците най-сетне. Да знае българският народ какво е било. И това се повтаря 1941, 1942 година пак още веднъж. И сега пак някой ми пише за моравските българи, иска още веднъж да ходим там. Ами не ни ли стига два пъти? Много често в нашата история няма македонци, те са българи, защото през 1941 година ни посрещнали не знам как си. И никой не е написал как през 1944 година са ни изпратили. Ама и това трябва да се напише.

- А как са ни изпратили там?

- Как, гледали сме като… И с това посрещане. Ами ние 41-а година как посрещаме Хитлер? После 43-а година как плачем за цар Борис - аз съм свидетел на това. После 44-а година как посрещаме руснаците, после 46-а година как посрещаме Тито, 48-а година как го ругаем, после 49-а година как крещим на площадите “Смърт на Трайчо Костов”. Това за какво е доказателство, че хората са манипулирани, че вървят като стадо.

и-вестник / Портал Турция

Saturday, June 19, 2010

Macedonian Style Coup d'Etat

Macedonian Style Coup d'Etat

Macedonian Style Coup d'Etat

By Dusan Sinadinoski

Macedonian parliamentary elections, a quad-annual political event, are relatively orderly and fair; but what takes place after them is comparable to the consequences which follow acoup d’etat.Generally speaking, the concept coup d'etat implies an occurrence of a sudden and violent overthrow of a government. Such acts of government change are predominantly done either by military juntas, as it has so often happened in Latin American and Middle Eastern countries, or by revolutionary movements, which are most likely to take place in Africa and Asia (although from time to time Europe itself has not been spared of this political incongruity). However, more often than not, a coup d’etat is expected to take place in countries which are politically unstable, have a history of dictatorships, or have emerging democracies. But these changes, as violent as they may be, are not the only defining characteristics of a coup d’etat. What follows after a coup d’etat has more of a profound impact on a country’s social, political and economic affairs than the event itself. It not only produces significant and radical political changes, but often times the events which follow further destabilizes the existing bureaucratic and social structures. Even though a coup d’etat has not taken place in Macedonia, the political, social and economic changes that are experienced in Macedonia after every parliamentary election are, nonetheless, very similar to those resulting from a coup d’etat.

In its traditional sense, acoupd’etat is understood to refer to the means by which a government overthrow is accomplished. It tacitly implies that eminent and impending changes are expected to follow. In most cases, the new leaders (after they successfully accomplish a coup d’etat) murder, imprison, expel or displace all or most of the ex-government officials loyal to the previous government. They immediately install their own people loyal to them. The laws are rewritten or amended to protect their interests. Sometimes these changes are so abrupt and shocking that they can cause the government offices to be closed or to stop normal functioning. It takes a while until a country can get back on track and start doing business as usual – unless another coup d’etat takes place. The devastating effects a coup d’etat has on a country’s economic, social and political structures are far reaching. The political continuity of the affected country could be so drastically altered that it could take a long time before that country can get back to some kind of normality.

However, it should also be pointed out that some of the sudden and violent changes which are associated with a coup d’etat can be true of revolutions, civil wars and foreign occupations. It is true that all of these events are violent and could happen spontaneously; but civil wars, revolutions, or foreign occupations normally take much longer to plan and execute because they involve a larger segment of the society. A coup d’etat, on the other hand, could happen in a matter of hours or in a few days while the latter events could take weeks, months or even years. In addition, while revolutions, civil wars and foreign occupations have lofty goals of bringing profound political, social and economic changes, the aims of almost everycoup d‘etat are usually associated with much narrower goals (such as personal ambitions and fear of persecutions). Thus, the real distinguishing criteria between a coup d’etat and revolutions, civil wars and foreign occupations is not the means of how a government is overthrown but the stipulated goals
for which they are fought. All revolutions, including civil wars and foreign occupations, can justify the use of violent means to overthrow a government by appealing to the notion of a higher cause. For instance, the American, French and Bolshevik revolutions were guided by their own particular ideas of justice, freedom, liberty and equality. Most civil wars, such as the American and Spanish wars, were not fought just to depose the existing regimes but they had different ideas of what the function of their governments ought to be and what political, social or economic systems their respective countries should embrace. Similarly, like the occupation of Iraq, the aim is not just to depose a despotic leader and his regime but also to restore or impose a certain value system which the occupying country believes will be better for that particular nation.

In a coup d’etat the aim is much narrower. It usually advances the interest of few individuals and does not have the support of the large masses. It is not uncommon that sometimes people will go to bed knowing the name of their current dictator while waking up to a new ruler. In such cases, what happens is that one dictator deposes another one without anyone knowing for what reason. It is expected that immediate changes in the government will follow because the new dictators cannot survive very long unless they install their own people in power. However, such dictators may or may not attempt to make political, economic or social changes based on political or social values. Sometimes a dictator will impose a value system of his own because of the fear that disruptions in the government could trigger widespread social and political upheavals against his own regime, as is currently the case in Pakistan.

After the violent break up of Yugoslavia, Macedonia emerged as one of the newest nations in Europe without a highly anticipated bloodshed (surprisingly!). This new nation, a landlocked Balkan country whose territory and people are even at the present time bitterly contested by Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, was relatively poor and very heavily dependable on the Yugoslav national economy. Thankfully, Macedonia was spared of a coup d’etat even though it was fertile ground for such an event, considering all that had occurred in and around its borders. This is a remarkable accomplishment. In spite of everything, Macedonia was even on a smooth transition toward embracing democracy. Moreover, it seemed that the country was on the verge of an economic boom. As political conflicts and civil wars were being waged around her borders, Macedonia was praised by the world leaders for her ability to steer away from a civil war or other potentially serious conflicts. For a while it looked as if Macedonia was a major Balkan success story. But unfortunately the large Macedonian Albanian population aided and directed by their ideological comrades and the fanatical Muslim fundamentalists from Kosovo, changed all that in 2001. Suddenly Macedonia found herself in conflict, which not only had devastating effects on the already uneasy Macedonian multi-ethnic coexistence, but brought the country to a virtual political and economic collapse.

As Macedonia was celebrating the realization of her attained statehood, she found herself without a market for her agricultural products and with a nonexistent industrial base. Underdeveloped and with no attractive natural resources, the dream quickly turned sour for thousands of unemployed workers and professionals. Macedonian suddenly found herself in a dire need for foreign capital investments and business know-how. As Macedonia’s unemployment rate sky-rocketed with no foreseeable future of it falling down, the government had no means to move the country forward. Actually, it was trying a lot harder to convince its citizens that thousands of new jobs were created every year rather than taking some practical steps to alleviate the desperate situation. In fact, many of the high ranking government officials teamed up with a small, but powerful, group of oligarchs to rape and pillage the spoils. The Macedonian people were witnesses to a chaotic plunder that created millionaires over-night while leaving many thousands poor. No one knew how to fix the problem or what to expect next.

The Macedonian citizens looked to the government to lead them out of the crisis but the Macedonian government had no clue how to. As part of Yugoslavia, even though highly decentralized, the Macedonian government had very little experience in managing its domestic and foreign affairs. It was not quite sure where it fit in the international community. To the north, Serbia was torn by wars. To the east, Bulgaria (even though it recognized Macedonia as a republic) had secret aspirations towards Macedonian territory. To the south, the Greeks were infuriated by Macedonia’s use of the Macedonian name and imposed an economic blockade. Albania to the west was not sure what to make of the situation, but in the end she turned her back on Macedonia and implicitly supported the Albanian insurrection. Thus, isolated and threatened, the Macedonian government appeared to be simply a temporary caretaker and was awaiting a miracle in the form of the USA and the EU. Meanwhile, the Macedonian people could only rely on themselves to manage their affairs.

These conditions made it very ripe for an outbreak of a coup d’etat in Macedonia at any time Despite it all, Macedonia surprisingly continued with her democratic experiment and somehow survived all the glooms and dooms of her eventual disintegration, which many political experts in the region expected to happen within weeks or a few months at the most. Ironically, Macedonia’s disintegration was welcomed by Bulgaria and Albania because they hoped for a split of her territory. Greece was also hoping for the same outcome because they would never have to deal with the name issue again. The reason there probably was no coup d’etat taking place in Macedonia is because it did not have a strong military or a recent history of military rule of its own. But more importantly, the West understood the potential catastrophe it could cause throughout the entire Balkans and Europe – so they rushed to help Macedonia.

The timely help given to Macedonia by the West did not only help to keep the country together but it was instrumental in avoiding a major human disaster. Through an active political, military and economic involvement, the United State and the European Union managed to stabilize the Macedonian government and steer it toward future democratic development. To ensure no future conflict arose, some series of steps were taken. First, the Ohrid Framework Agreement was put in force. It revised the Macedonian Constitution as an attempt to redistribute the country’s political capital based on the proportion of the ethnic population, but it really aimed at appeasing the restless Albanian minority. Secondly, the United States of America recognized Macedonia by her constitutional name, the Republic of Macedonia. Thirdly, the European Union kept a close watch on what was happening in Macedonia by stationing the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe forces there and by signing the Stabilization and Association Agreement. These interventions worked and Macedonia currently seems to be enjoying relative political stability. But because of Kosovo’s unresolved status, Macedonia is still susceptible to ethnic and social conflicts which could very quickly destabilize her political foundation. The faster Macedonia integrates into the Euro-Atlantic communities, the better chances she has to become a more stable democracy.

Even though no real coup d’etat took place in Macedonia, not one Macedonian government (ever since her independence in 1991 to the present) has been able to create favorable political, social and economic conditions conducive to a healthy and prosperous country. Notwithstanding the fact that the current government campaigned on the grounds of doing just that, it still has yet to put forward a realistic and workable plan of how to make life better for thousands of unemployed Macedonians. The best option the government has is to stake all of its hopes on joining NATO in the near future and then eventually the European Union. It is widely believed by the Macedonian politicians that her eventual membership in these organizations will somehow be the answer to most, if not all, of her ills. This seems to be a remedy of which the Macedonian politicians have very successfully convinced the people of so that everyone is now waiting for this magic to happen. All of this points out that the economic situation in Macedonia is still pretty bleak without much of a chance for improvement in the near future. As the result, for most unemployed Macedonians, the prospect of ending up with a job in Macedonia is beyond their reach. Their only alternative is to seek employment outside of Macedonia.

Just because a violent overthrow of the government in Macedonia did not happen, it does not mean that similar effects of a coup d’etat are not being felt daily. Each new government lasted for one term only – running an effective government proved almost impossible. They had trouble finding their own raison d’etre. There was no agreement on the priorities of the domestic issues. Conducting smooth and effective international relations was seriously hindered. There was no agreement on how to fight crime and corruption. The government was more concerned about weakening the opposition rather than concentrating its resources on the economy, education, jobs and other pressing issues. The opposition, on the other hand, tried vigorously to minimize the accomplishment of the government. This continuous perpetuation of self-destruction is as much a reason for the ruling party to stay in power as it is equally beneficial for the opposition to come to power at the next elections.

The most expedient way out of this bleak situation for Macedonians is to join one of the major political parties and betting on it to win parliamentary elections. By doing so, their chances for finding a job are exponentially improved. The sought-after jobs are those in the civil service bureaucracy, government offices, public institutions and other public enterprises. But those jobs are already taken by the party members of the ruling government. However, in all fairness to Macedonia, these jobs are also highly sought-after even in highly industrialized nations, not to mention countries with emerging democracies or authoritarian regimes. The reason why these jobs are highly attractive to many professional people is because they are generally very stable. In Macedonia, these jobs are of a premium quality because they are the only ones that are available (for now at least). Ironically, in Macedonia, these jobs are currently also very volatile.

It is assumed that a government is there to maximize the welfare of its citizens so every individual is only faced with the problem of how to choose that which is best for him out of several alternatives. Under those conditions, each individual will chose whether to become a public employee, to be employed by the private industry, to be self employed, or to choose whatever else there is that can be chosen. The ability to choose a job in Macedonia is such a distant and unreachable goal that this may represent a concept not comprehensible to many Macedonians. Meanwhile, the range of employment choices for most Macedonians is not one among several jobs, but one job which is shared by several individuals. Therefore, it is no surprise that in Macedonia, a choice of alternatives is not an option. Macedonians are not faced with the problem of making a decision based on choices which most maximizes their welfare because such opportunities do not exist. To the contrary, the real choice Macedonians have is to decide whether or not they will shovel out support for certain opposition parties and bet on them winning at the polls.

Because of such a chronic lack of real economic alternatives in Macedonia, the best that individuals can hope for is a change of government. For the Macedonians, the purpose of government acquires quite a different meaning than what is commonly understood by Western democracies – it becomes a source for jobs. Part of this attitude is due to Macedonia’s communist experience. Macedonians are use to the idea of the government being a major and steady employer and they continue to expect the same. Since the fall of communism in the early 1990’s, many Macedonians have not been able to adapt to the new political and economic environment. Even those Macedonians who are lucky enough to have a government job are not sure they will keep them for more than four years. That is because Macedonia does not have a strong and permanent civil service force like traditional western democracies where these jobs are separated from the political jobs. For the most part, these jobs are filled by a pool of party members of whichever political party happens to be in charge of the current government. After every parliamentary election, a quad-annual process of mass firing and hiring of government and public employees in Macedonia becomes a frantic experience.

A mass firing and hiring of government and public employees is done by VMRO -DPMNE and it is also done by SDSM, the two major political parties in Macedonia. For example, the current government of VMRO-DPMNE went as far as to replace all supervisory and technical employees in the Ministry of Interior, including the career police officers and custom specialists. It also replaced the personnel in the Foreign Ministry responsible for the Macedonian Euro Atlantic integration. The government recalled newly appointed ambassadors from Washington and London before even having anybody ready to replace them. All of this was done in the name of incompetence on the part of the replaced professionals while the incoming employees were viewed as highly qualified individuals who could bring the much needed professionalism and expertise to their positions. Albeit, every Macedonian knows that this is nothing more than a token excuse for an act of cover-up for hiring the party cadres.

The fact that Mr. Gruevski was not satisfied with only replacing political appointees and those who he believed were hired unlawfully is further evidenced by his decision to carry out a mass firing of hundreds of border and custom specialists. Macedonia is on a crossroads from the East to the West and much of the illegal activities, such as drug and human trafficking, pass through her territory. In order to help the country be better prepared to combat these problems, the European Community and the United States provided much of the technical equipment and training to the Macedonian government. But even if this was the case, it would only seem logical to properly review each individual’s qualifications and then make a decision based on merit. Since it takes considerable expenses and time to train and to educate specialists, it only seems prudent to keep those specialists on the job regardless of which political party is running the government. Instead, the government proceeded with a mass replacement of the specialists instead of slowly replacing those who are incompetent or who may have compromised their positions. Apparently, compromising the safety and effectiveness of the bureaucracy was scarified in order to provide jobs to the members.

The mass replacements were not only done in the political and governmental institutions and agencies. These firings happened in other public institutions also. Especially affected were jobs relating to the medical, educational, transportation and cultural fields. Clearly, Mr. Gruevski’s government did not distinguish between political appointees or civil service jobs either. In either case, however, it probably did not matter to him because the pressure of providing jobs to the members of his party was much too strong to ignore it. Apparently, it all boiled down to the same political favoritism of which he so vociferously accused his predecessor, Mr. Buchkovski. But again, without these maneuvers, one can only speculate how lengthy his tenure of a minister would have been. As long as the Macedonian government does not enact a strong legislation to regulate and protect the civil service jobs, this practice will continue to recycle itself every time Macedonia elects a new government.

The current government headed by Prime Minister Gruevski seems to be unaffected by all the criticism it has received by local and foreign media. Many influential foreign diplomats and politicians have brought it to his attention that he may have gone too far by allowing mass replacements. But Mr. Gruevski attempted to justify his actions by arguing that he is not the one who set the precedent here, but that he only followed in the foot-steps of his previous predecessors, such as Vlado Buchkovski, Branko Crvenkovski, Ljupco Georgievski and other preceding government officials. In fact, he went so far to claim that the previous government had hired many incompetent professionals for political favors and nepotism. Undoubtedly, Mr. Gruevski could truly argue that he has a valid point here because the previous coalition government formed by SDSM and DUI was just as guilty as Mr. Gruevski, and therefore he should not take all the blame. In fact, the Prime Minister defended his decision by arguing that he is only correcting the mistakes made by the previous coalition government headed by SDSM. Of course, Mr. Gruevski could have changed this situation by not following his predecessors’ foot steps; but one can only assume the kind of pressure Mr. Gruevski must have been under to provide the promised jobs to all those who supported his election.

There is an abundance of evidence which points out that these events have devastating effects on the political and economic well-being of the Macedonian people, as well as on the political stability and continuity of the Macedonian nation. People have not only become indifferent to the affairs of the government but they see their government as corrupt, incapable and ineffective. The very ideas of justice, fairness, economic prosperity, political stability and ethnic coexistence have turned into a highly expensive Western import available only to the governmentc a dre and the few unscrupulous oligarchs. But most importantly, the government has critically impaired the most basic human instincts of its citizens to be able to create, hope, and aspire. In other words, the Macedonian government has become more of a burden to its people rather than playing a vital role for creating and perpetuating conditions for a better Macedonian future. To the contrary, the government became directly accountable for alienating its citizens from themselves, their fellow citizens, and the government. It is very difficult to expect that Macedonians could go on like this much longer. The situation in Macedonia becomes more unbearable with every day that passes and a quick-fix is desperately needed.

There are many lessons which the Macedonian government needs to learn in order to become truly democratic. But above everything else, the Macedonian government needs to understand that they are elected to serve the interest of its citizens first and foremost. It is doubtful that this will happen unless the Macedonian people realize that the real power is in their hands and that they are ultimately the masters of their own affairs. Unfortunately, as things stand now, the change of governments in Macedonia (as democratic as it has proven it could be) will continue to harbor the seeds of its own instability and ineffectiveness. Even if no real coup d’etat took place in Macedonia, this quad-annual rotation of governments will continue to cause irreparable damage to the vital government and public institutions as well as to the entire bureaucratic structure of the country. Even the nation’s interests may be seriously damaged on the international level. Moreover, who knows how much more of this desolate situation the people can be expected to absorb! Now is a prime time for the Macedonian government to mature and start to comprehend the perilous situation they face, especially since they are knocking on NATO’s and the European Union’s doors. Hopefully, the sooner they join NATO and EU, the sooner the Macedonian government will be prepared to become a legitimate representative of the Macedonian people.

Friday, June 18, 2010

Greek document from 1915

Greek notary document from 1915 witnesses that the Macedonian language was undeniable fact to the Greeks!

Грчки нотарски заверен документ од 1915 година, во кој се признава македонскиот јазик!






























Greeks sweared in front of the Bible that they will loyally translate from Macedonian! Notary document form 1915 witnesses that the Macedonian language and identity were undeniable fact to the Greeks. The Macedonian language is neither made up, nor does a commintery creation with the Macedonian nation, as the Greeks state in their aggressive campaign, prove documents from the beginning of the last century. One of them is the notary agreement from 1915, made in Lerin. The agreement on March 6th 1915 was signed between the Macedonian Stavro Stojchev and the Turk Alim Juzeir. None of them knew the Greek language, which was established by the Greek administration in the part of Macedonia that Greece got by the Treaty of Bucharest in 1913. So, the Greek authorities engaged a translator who speaks Macedonian and Turkish.

In the notary act is written: “In front of me, the notary public Vasiliu P. Kuvela, and present witnesses, Greek citizens I know, healthy and never convicted citizens of Lerin, the traders Teodor Keramici and Hristo Danail, came and legitimated Stavro Stojchev, farmer of Opsirina, district Florina and Alim Juzeir, citizen of Florina, farmer. They are not familiar with the Greek language. The first one speaks Macedonian, and the second speaks Turkish. We called the translator Naum Griva, tobacco trader, who sweared in front of the Holy Gospel that he will translate from Macedonian to Turkish and from Turkish to Macedonian loyally”. Further in the text is written for the loan that Stojchev gave to Juzeir of 4530 drachma at that time, i.e. 220 ottoman liras. The document is signed by all present and it is legalized by stamps of the notary public and the Greek administration. The document is original with a few revenue stamps, costing 25 money each. This document was kept by the successors of Stavro Stojchev. They gave the document to Petre Nakovski, ex ambassador of Macedonia in Poland, who researches and writes for the Macedonian refugees form Aegean Macedonia, and soon, in the Macedonia Archive, he will promote the book “Macedonian refugees in Poland 1948- 1975”. This is one of the many documents that break the Greek and Bulgarian statements that the Macedonian language and nation are made up and formed by a decision of Josip Broz Tito and the Commintery. “Dnevnik” finds out that such documents, which reveal the statements of the present Greek campaign could be soon presented to the UN mediator for the name, Mathew Nimetz.

Грци се колнеле пред Библија дека верно ќе преведуваат од македонски! Нотарски документ од 1915 година сведочи дека македонскиот јазик и идентитет за Грците бил неоспорен факт Македонскиот јазик ниту е измислен, ниту е коминтерновска творба заедно со македонската нација, како што тврдат Грците во својата агресивна пропаганда, докажуваат документи од почетокот на минатиот век. Еден од нив е и нотарскиот договор од 1915 година склучен во Лерин. Договорот на 6 март 1915 година бил попишан меѓу Македонецот Ставро Стојчев и Турчинот Алим Јузеир. Ни едниот ни другиот не го знаеле грчкиот јазик, кој бил вопспоставен со грчкото администрирање на делот од Македонија што Грција го доби по договорот во Букурешт во 1913 година. Поради тоа, грчките власти во Лерин ангажирале преведувач што ги зборувал и македонскиот и турскиот јазик. Во нотарскиот акт пишува: „Пред мене, нотарот Василиу П. Кувела, во присуство на сведоци, грчки државјани кои ми се познати, здрави и неосудувани жители на Лерин, трговците Теодор Керамици и Христо Данаил, ми се јавија и се легитимираа Ставро Стојчев, земјоделец, жител на Опсирина, Околија Флорина и Алим Јузеир, жител на Флорина, земјоделец. Тие не го знаат грчкиот јазик. Првиот зборува македонски, вториот турски. Го повикавме преведувачот Наум Грива, трговец со тутун, кој се заколна пред Светото евангелие дека верно ќе врши превод од македонски и турски на грчки и обратно“.

Во натамошниот текст се зборува за заемот што Стојчев му го дал на Јузеир од тогашни 4.530 драхми, односно 220 отомански лири. Документот е потпишан од сите присутни и завeрен со печат на нотарот и на грчката административна управа. Документот е оригинален, со неколку таксени марки што тогаш поединечно чинеле по 25 пари.Овој документ со години го чуваат наследници на Ставро Стојчев. Тие документот му го отстапиле на Петре Наковски, поранешен македонски амбасадор во Полска, кој подолго време истражува и пишува за македонските бегалци од Егејска Македонија, а наскоро во издание на Архивот на Македонија ќе ја промовира и книгата „Македонските бегалци во Полска 1948-1975 година“.Овој е само еден од многуте документи во кој се побиваат грчките и бугарските тврдења дека македонскиот јазик и нација се измислени и дека се формирани со одлука на Јосип Броз Тито и Коминтерната. „Дневник“ дознава дека вакви документи со кои се демаскираат тврдењата на сегашната грчка пропаганда наскоро би можеле да му бидат презентирани и на посредникот на ОН во спорот за името, Метју Нимиц.

Извор: Катерина Блажевска, Дневник, 12/05/2008

Thursday, June 17, 2010

Macedonian Secret Sixteen

Macedonian Secret Sixteen

Macedonian Secret Sixteen

By Dusan Sinadinoski

The legendary Macedonian people did not choose their own history. They were ordained by the wise and righteous deities of the mighty heavens. After a long and careful deliberation the heavenly powers choose to create the Macedonian people in their own image and to bestow upon them their heavenly wisdom. The supreme powers knew right away that the Macedonians were the only people capable of spreading their will and wisdom to the vast lands of earthly nations. With that purpose in mind, the divine powers gave Macedonians the number sixteen as their secret source of power and appointed them to an angelic mission to free their self-enslaved neighbors, as well as other faraway nations, and to lead them to the gates of divine grandeur. But the divine powers will keep the gates of heaven closed for all nations of the world until sixteen wonders come to pass from Macedonia.

Thus prepared, the Macedonians were set on a mission. From the dawn of the civilized world, through the dark ages and to the present, the courageous and the free-spirited Macedonians begin to blaze a path to the kingdom of wisdom for those of a less fortunate fate. It all began with the Kingdom of Macedon and Alexander the Great, the greatest Macedonian king and the greatest of all earthly kings. It was also intended, according to the heavenly design, that the greatest philosopher of all times, the unsurpassable Aristotle, to be of a Macedonian kinship and to be the teacher of Alexander the Great.

This Macedonian deity, Alexander the Great, did not become great just because he fought wars and conquered foreign lands. There were many kings and ruthless rulers before and after him who fought wars and conquered lands – but none of them could surpass his greatness because it wasn’t designed to be. What set Alexander the Great apart from the rest of the kings, famous and infamous, was his vision to fulfill gods’ will to unite all nations of the world. For that purpose, the Macedonian king of kings was endowed with powers of wisdom and courage to free the enslaved nations and to enlighten the dark laden world. This military and political genius of unsurpassed achievements succeeded in establishing a world’s first universal kingdom out of sixteen enslaved nations more than two thousand years ago. No other mighty king of today and yesterday can measure up to Alexander’s sacred deeds because he was ordained to be one of the sixteen wonders which had to come from Macedonia.

Macedonia was again immortalized by none other than St Paul himself, the greatest apostle of the Christian Church. As the holiest of all great Christian visionaries and missionaries, St Paul had the vision to come to Macedonia upon God’s request in order to enlighten the masses and to build temples of holy wisdom. Thus was commanded by God; thus St Paul obeyed and Macedonia became a holy land. Once again, in accordance with the sacred design, St Paul was required to mention Macedonia sixteen times in the bible, just like the Macedonian sun has sixteen rays. Only those nations deprived of wisdom can’t understand that the number sixteen is not an ordinary number but a divine sign to be understood only by the Macedonian people until all sixteen wonders come to pass. As St. Paul by fulfilling his holy mission to Macedonia because that was God’s will, he also became one of the sixteen wonders that will com from
Macedonia.

So Macedonia continued to be a blessed nation because the will of God required that sixteen saints should come from Macedonia, including St. Cyril, St. Methodius, St Clement and St Naum; Macedonia’s most holy Christian Orthodox icons. These Macedonian holy icons, the envies of Macedonian friends and enemies alike, created the holly Slavonic letters so that the masses of the vast lands of the Slavs and other nations, from the Balkans to the Urals, a total of sixteen in number, could read the words of wisdom and to have the means to immortalize their thoughts and deeds. Through these Macedonian deities, Macedonia became the birthplace of one of the oldest alphabets in the world. They provided many small and great nations with the means to explore themselves and the universe. Thus whenever someone from any of those nations travels into space, wins a Noble prize, or makes an extraordinary achievement in any endeavor; it was made possible because of these great Macedonian visionaries and missionaries. Yet, this was only another wonder of the sixteen commanded by the holy powers to come from Macedonia.

But fate wanted to test the will and resolve of the Macedonian nation to survive and succeed where all other people stop and fold. Other more powerful and bigger but much more ruthless and ignorant nations have aspired to dominate the sacred Macedonian lands and claim them as their own. They have attempted to deprive the Macedonian people of their ordained history, to steal their identity and to decorate themselves with Macedonian sacred medals. These cave- bound and knowledge deprived nations, adorned with stolen Macedonian sacred icons, pretend that the Kingdom of Macedonia with its sixteen wonders is their prize of distinction They recklessly appointed themselves as Macedonian ambassadors to spread to the rest of the world their fictitious truth of the Kingdom of Macedonia. They continue to promulgate this vulgar truth because they fear their ghost from the past will come back to haunt them and because they know their Judgment Day is nearing for them. But the destined Macedonian nation will endure and continue to produce future wonders because the power Vergina’s star will not stop shining over the Kingdom of Macedonia until all sixteen wonders come to pass from Macedonia.

The Macedonian destiny was carved in stone in order to endure all the evils that are lurking hidden behind the token offers of friendship or direct aggressions. That is why no amount of force coming from mega ideas, underground designs, internal supreme sabotage organizations or militant secret leagues will derail the Macedonians from their path to reach the gates of havens. The Sun of Vergina with its sixteen rays, their secret heavenly number, was created to enlighten the way to their throne of eternal paradise. The heavenly design for Macedonia must be fulfilled and until it happens no power on earth will be capable of changing the will of heavens.

Now the Kingdom of Macedonia is not as big and as powerful as it once was. But the Macedonians have the secret number sixteen and this number reveals all the secrets of the heavens to them. The Macedonians know that this number holds their secret because everything in nature divides into halve and each halve further divides into half until the number one comes. This is true because a half of sixteen is eight, half of eight is four, half of four is two and half of two is one. That is why the Macedonian Star of Vergina has sixteen rays, one for each Macedonian deity but all the sixteen deities form one indivisible god, the Macedonian sun. That is why the heavenly powers designed the Macedonian sun to represent the true nature of heaven’s secret. No wonder why those who worship the number twelve on Mount Olympus have false beliefs because number twelve divides into one and one half, but nothing in the world ends in one and a half. Has anyone has ever seen one and a half suns?

Those who can’t tell a fact from a judgment or a truth from a lie still have doubts that Macedonia is a sacred nation. So many still live in the dark and don’t understand the true meaning of Macedonian glory. Let them hear it again that it was in accordance with the design and not by an earthly accident that Alexander of Macedonia became a king of sixteen nations. If this was not true, why his phalanx consisted of sixteen rows and sixteen columns? Why were the soldiers’ sarissa sixteen feet long? If it wasn’t in accordance to the plan, why was Macedonia mentioned sixteen times in the bible and sixteen saints had to come from Macedonia? Wasn’t the plan fulfilled again when sixteen great nations learn how to read and write using the Macedonian alphabet? Didn’t sixteen legendary Macedonianvojvoda defend the sacred Macedonian land? Can any mortal man, then, explain why these wonders of the number sixteen have come from Macedonia! Who can now doubt that the Star of Vergina with its sixteen rays, one each for all sixteen Macedonian wonders, is not a heavenly sign for Macedonia? That is why it is not secret that all these great heavenly signs mean that a total sixteen wonders are ordained to come from Macedonia before the world becomes an earthly heavens.

Rejoice Macedonians! The Kingdom of Macedonia is forever – the sixteen wonders still have to
come to pass

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